"unique" "rare" HMV 100 ? it's a Cut N Shut !

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Gmemg
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"unique" "rare" HMV 100 ? it's a Cut N Shut !

Post by Gmemg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:57 pm

The Colonial Gramophone Collectors of the World have been somewhat surprised to see pictures elsewhere of a "unique" and "rare" HMV model 100 - "how interesting" some have said whilst others have accepted it most are of the opinion that it may well be "unique" but HMV ?

Err...................

NO chance !

What have we got ? The pictures show and HMV model 100 with a very deep case - it is said to have a Model 32 motor (as in the Model 112) but it's a model 100 ! - it has a model 100 Motorboard and without doubt the lid of a Model 100 but the deep case is puzzling - why ?

The usual HMV Model 112 is essentially a model 101 but has a deep case so that the Model 32 motor can clear the top of the HORN but in a model 100 there is NO HORN so why the deep case ? there's NO NEED and HMV wouldn't have done it , also the base seems very thin and appears to be stained plywood which could be original or more likely it's just nailed on

Look at the piano hinge - it's very crudely attached and appears to have been levered up at some point - very odd

So what do we have here ?

It's the lid of a Model 100 with the motorboard & reflector shoved into another case the original being lost or damaged - classic "cut n Shut" and yet another indian Fake just like the rubbishy one with a horn facing upwards see here

https://youtu.be/KGMYGYlb-vM

why can't "camp" barrie or Epicboreophone see or are they being Ironic ? certainly "Suicidal" Steve TMF Admin isn't fooled - it's like the "Opera House" machine a load of JUNK perhaps the "Austrian" Buyer * should stay well clear of any more of these - i'm not saying unusual things don't exist - they do BUT as usual CAVEAT EMPTOR

the stoats comment is amusing but not quite accurate :

" I'm afraid that Soundgen has the typical British collector's viewpoint - anything that isn't sanctified by received wisdom is "a bit of old tat".

Most British Collectors lack the American Confidence and HAVE to have WRITTEN proof before they buy - that's why most buy HMV Or columbia with Decca as a runner up - the intelligent ones buy EMG / Expert but that requires intelligence , thought and reasoning but even then fakes are far from unknown - i MUST agree with Mike about the "Opera House" it is "the Emperors New Clothes !

it't just some sort of 80s fabrication (with oddly the same idea as the "Portable " machine shown in the Video - someone's been or still is faking these up ) which reminds me of a sort of wedding cake left out in the rain ! - Americans are fond of "Folk Art" i would call that machine "Folk Off" as that's what i would say to anyone trying to offer it to me as a Gift (except near Nov 5th )

* He also bought that Vesper machine - which "got lost in the Post" unlucky or is he a wind up merchant ....................after all he states
"I bought it from an Indian seller on ebay. First I tried to get a 102 teak, which I already payed for, but under close scrutiny was not genuine. I tried to get my money back, but after couple of weeks with excuses from the seller I spotted this gramophone he was offering and jumped on it. "

What ? buy one dodgy machine from a vendor can't get your money back so you err..................then take another ? he either very naive or this is a JOKE All VERY fishy and highly amusing !
Estott : "An Ancient Half - Mad Uncle "

My U - Tube Channel is : http://www.youtube.com/user/EMGColonel

Corruption in the CLPGS :
The Seven Social Sins are:
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character .Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle.

Money. Greed. Naivety. Falsehoods. Exploitation. Welcome to the wonderful world of gramophones!

"He has as much comedic talent as the Straight man on a Linguaphone record "
Si vis pacem, para bellum Der Morgige Tag Ist Mein

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Re: "unique" "rare" HMV 100 ? it's a Cut N Shut !

Post by Gmemg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:57 pm

Some more photos have been posted and have they cleared up the mystery ? no they seem to complicate matters considerably and lead to more questions !

why is the interior so dirty particularly the edges & corners of the plywood base ?

why are the motorboard support blocks two different thicknesses ?

why are there blocks in the bottom of the reflector compartment ?

why are the base case corners the type for a lid and so are without the rubber feet expected ?

why is the hole for the escutcheon oval and not round ?

why are there so may holes in the back of the inside of the case ?

why are there holes in the base ?

SO here we go with a few thoughts :

I am VERY suspicious of the dirt - why would the interior get so dirty ? i would expect some drips from the motor and maybe a few oily fingerprints from someone servicing the motor but not an overall dirty surface like that - it's the sort of mistake fakers make with antique furniture - they assume that they have to make the insides of fake furniture look old & used when in reality genuine pieces tend to be clean and dry inside where they are NOT touched !

To confirm the above i looked in several HMV teak portables NONE had such dirt in - NONE were varnished or finished on the interiors, all seemed just dry - the wood was dark with age but not dirty , i even checked some other non HMV indian teak Machines and they were the same just a few spots of oil or a few fingermarks NO dirt such as this

The motorboard supports are different pieces of wood of different thicknesses - why ? did they run out of wood - unlikely as Teak isn't rare in Indiah - i cannot think of a rational explanation for it and neither can i for blocks in the bottom of the reflector compartment

The bottom case corners son all HMV machines are ones specifically made for the purpose and have rubber feet so as not to scratch furniture - these are just wrong

The escutcheon hole is oval - why ? the only explanation is that when drilling it they found that thee handle didn't screw in so had to make it oval and re - cut the fixing holes - which can be seen - i've NEVER seen that on any HMV Machine - they do it right first time and the same applies to the 2 sets of holes for fitting the reflector - if done right the first time there's no need to do it twice

Conclusion :

The whole lid arrangement is totally genuine and original and thus i have no questions about it but the base is crudely done with far too may mistakes and correction - these are not due to "wear & tear" or "make do an mend" they are just plain wrong and ring a lot of alarm bells.

It may not have been made yesterday but it's not right

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole !

(Roger thinks it's genuine - That kills it for me )

Go on mike, tell him, toot toot Joon, Yeh Yeh mike !
Estott : "An Ancient Half - Mad Uncle "

My U - Tube Channel is : http://www.youtube.com/user/EMGColonel

Corruption in the CLPGS :
The Seven Social Sins are:
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character .Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle.

Money. Greed. Naivety. Falsehoods. Exploitation. Welcome to the wonderful world of gramophones!

"He has as much comedic talent as the Straight man on a Linguaphone record "
Si vis pacem, para bellum Der Morgige Tag Ist Mein

User avatar
Gmemg
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Posts: 1452
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:39 pm
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Re: "unique" "rare" HMV 100 ? it's a Cut N Shut !

Post by Gmemg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:58 pm

Here are a couple of photos of genuine interiors

1st an HMV 101 (teak) interior - just old dry wood with some oil soaked in

Image


and here's one from my sub collection of Inidan Teak HMV looka likes - contemporary with the Colonial teak models but by swiss companies and again unfinished old dry wood NO mucking about and the finish stops at the motorboard (the base on this model is plywood just as in the other machine just not dirty !)

Image

There's now a new theory ! apparently this is a "112" case re - used " no - the lid is NOT from a Model 112 and like the handle it's from a Model 100 the case isn't it's a simple as that
Estott : "An Ancient Half - Mad Uncle "

My U - Tube Channel is : http://www.youtube.com/user/EMGColonel

Corruption in the CLPGS :
The Seven Social Sins are:
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character .Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle.

Money. Greed. Naivety. Falsehoods. Exploitation. Welcome to the wonderful world of gramophones!

"He has as much comedic talent as the Straight man on a Linguaphone record "
Si vis pacem, para bellum Der Morgige Tag Ist Mein

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